Notes and Queries, Number 187, May 28, 1853. Various
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thou not know one Master Chamberlain?
Careless. No forsooth; I know him not.
Martin. No dost! and he hath written a book against thy faith also."—Id., vol. iii. p. 164.
"Lichfield and Coventry. We heard of no such order.
Lord Keeper. No did? Yes, and on the first question ye began willingly. How cometh it to pass that ye will not now do so?"—Id., p. 690.
"Then said Sir Thomas Moyle: 'Ah! Bland, thou art a stiff-hearted fellow. Thou wilt not obey the law, nor answer when thou art called.' 'Nor will,' quoth Sir John Baker. 'Master Sheriff, take him to your ward.'"—Id., vol. vii. p. 295.
Is it needful to state, that the original editions have, as they ought to have, a note of interrogation at "Baker?" I will not tax the reader's patience with more than two other examples, and they shall be fetched from the writings of that admirable papist—the gentle, the merry-hearted More:
"Well, quod Caius, thou wylt graunte me thys fyrste, that euery thynge that hath two erys is an asse.—Nay, mary mayster, wyll I not, quod the boy.—No wylt thou? quod Caius. Ah, wyly boy, there thou wentest beyond me."—The Thyrde Boke, the first chapter, fol. 84. of Sir Thomas More's Dialogues.
"Why, quod he, what coulde I answere ellys, but clerely graunt hym that I believe that thyng for none other cause but only bycause the Scripture so sheweth me?—No could ye? quod I. What yf neuer Scripture had ben wryten in thys world, should there neuer haue bene eny chyrch or congregacyon of faythfull and ryght beyleuyng people?—That wote I nere, quod he. No do ye? quod I."—Id., fol. 85.
In taking leave of this idiom, it would not perhaps be amiss to remark, that "ye can," in Duke Humphey's rejoinder to the "blyson begger of St. Albonys," is not, as usually understood, "you can?" but "yea can?"
To be at point = to be at a stay or stop, i.e. settled, determined, nothing farther being to be said or done: a very common phrase. Half a dozen examples shall suffice:
" · · · · · What I am truly
Is thine, and my poore countries to command:
Whither indeed before they (thy) heere-approach,
Old Seyward with ten thousand warlike men
Already at a point, was setting forth."
No profit to give the commentators' various guesses at the import of the phrase in the above passage, which will be best gathered from the following instances of its use elsewhere. But, before passing further, I beg permission to inform Mr. Knight that the original suggester of "sell" for "self," in an earlier part of this play, whose name he is at a loss for, was W. S. Landor, whose footnote to vol. ii. p. 273., Moxon's edit. of his works, is as follows:
"And here it may be permitted the editor to profit also by the manuscript, correcting in Shakespeare what is absolute nonsense as now printed:
'Vaulting ambition that o'erleaps itself,
And falls on the other side.'
Other side of what? It should be its sell. Sell is saddle in Spenser and elsewhere, from the Latin and Italian."
A correspondent of "N. & Q."., Vol. vii., p. 404., will be delighted to find his very ingenious discovery brought home, and corroborated by Landor's valuable manuscript: but it is an old said saw—"Great wits jump." Now to our examples:
"Pasquin. Saint Luke also affirmeth the same, saying flatly that he shall not be forgiuen. Beholde, therefore, how well they interprete the Scriptures.
Marforius. I am alreadie at a poynt with them, but thou shalt doo me great pleasure to expounde also vnto me certayne other places, vppon the which they ground this deceit."—Pasquine in a Traunce, turned but lately out of the Italian into this tongue by W. P.: London, 1584.
"But look, where malice reigneth in men, there reason can take no place: and, therefore, I see by it, that you are all at a point with me, that no reason or authority can persuade you to favour my name, who never meant evil to you, but both your commodity and profit."—Foxe's Acts and Monuments, vol. viii. p. 18.
"Not so, my lord," said I, "for I am at a full point with myself in that matter; and am right well able to prove both your transubstantiation with the real presence to be against the Scriptures and the ancient Fathers of the primitive Church."—Id., p. 587.
"Winchester. No, surely, I am fully determined, and fully at a point therein, howsoever my brethren do."—Id., p. 691.
"Brad. Sir, so that you will define me your church, that under it you bring not in a false church, you shall not see but that we shall soon be at a point."—Id., vol. vii. p. 190.
"Latimer. Truly, my lord, as for my part I require no respite, for I am at a point. You shall give me respite in vain; therefore, I pray you let me not trouble you to-morrow."—Id., p. 534.
"Unto whom he (Lord Cobham) gave this answer: 'Do as ye shall think best, for I am at a point.' Whatsoever he (Archbishop Arundel) or the other bishops did ask him after that, he bade them resort to his bill: for thereby would he stand to the very death."—Id., vol. iii. pp. 327-8.
"'Et illa et ista vera esse credantur et nulla inter nos contentio remanebit, quia nec illis veris ista, nec istis veris illa impediuntur.' Let bothe those truthes and these truthes be beleued, and we shall be at appoinct. For neither these truthes are impaired by the other, neither the other by these."—A Fortresse of the Faith, p. 50., by Thomas Stapleton: Antwerp, 1565.
"A poore man that shall haue liued at home in the countrie, and neuer tasted of honoure and pompe, is alwayes at a poynt with himselfe, when menne scorne and disdayne him, or shewe any token of contempt towardes his person."—John Calvin's CVIII. Sermon on the Thirtieth Chap. of Job, p. 554., translated by Golding: London, 1574.
"As for peace, I am at a point."—Leycester Correspondence, Camd. Soc., p. 261.
FOLK LORE
Weather Rules.—The interesting article on "The Shepherd of Banbury's Weather Rules" (Vol. vii., p. 373.) has reminded me of two sayings I heard in Worcestershire a few months back, and upon which my informant placed the greatest reliance. The first is, "If the moon changes on a Sunday, there will be a flood before the month is out." My authority asserted that through a number of years he has never known this fail. The month in which the change on a Sunday has occurred has been fine until the last day, when the flood came. The other saying is, "Look at the weathercock on St. Thomas's day at twelve o'clock, and see which way the wind is, and there it will stick for the next quarter," that is, three months. Can any of your readers confirm the above, and add any similar "weather rules?"
Birmingham.
Drills presaging Death (Vol. vii., p. 353.).—Your correspondent asks if the superstition he here alludes to in Norfolk is believed in other parts. I can give him a case in point in Berkshire:—Some twenty years ago an old gentleman died there, a near relative of my own; and on going down to his place, I was told by a farm overseer of his, that he was certain some of his lordship's family would die that season, as, in the last sowing, he had missed putting the seed in one row, which he showed me! "Who could disbelieve it now?" quoth the old man. I was then taken to the bee-hives, and at the door of every one this man knocked with his knuckles, and informed the occupants that they must now work for a new master, as their old one was gone to heaven. This, I believe, has been queried in your invaluable paper some time since. I only send it by the way. I know the same superstition is still extant in Cheshire, North Wales, and in some parts of Scotland.