The Teachings of U. G. Krishnamurti. U. G. Krishnamurti
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in the West.
Q: How do you come to this conclusion? Don't you think that India has evolved some sort of a philosophy?
UG: Yesterday I quoted a passage from Emerson. It's very rarely I quote anybody. You see, he makes a statement, a very interesting statement, that if you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. There is no use talking about God as love, God as truth, God as this, God as that.
So, this is the most interesting thing: Let the world see what God can make you like. In exactly the same way, you have to set your house in order. It's in chaotic condition — India — nobody knows where it is going. So, if there is anything to your spiritual heritage (and there is a lot; I'm not for a moment denying that; India has thrown up so many sages, saints and saviors of mankind), if that heritage cannot help this country to put its own house in order, how do you think this country can help the world? That is one thing.
Number two: You have to use the modern terminology, the new phrases. The people in the West are interested, fascinated, because of the new terminology, the new phrases, so they learn all these things, and they feel that they are somebody because they are able to repeat these things — that's all there is to it. You learn a new language and start speaking in that language, so you feel just great, but basically it is not in any way helping you.
So, how can this great heritage, of which all Indians are so proud, help this country first? Why is it not able to help this country? — that is my question.
Q: Help, in what sense?
UG: First of all you must have economic stability — everybody must be fed, clothed and given shelter. There is no excuse for the poverty in this country — for thirty years we have been a free country. Why do these things still continue in this country? — that is my basic question. Not that I have answers. I don't have answers. If I had the answers, I wouldn't be sitting here and talking; I would do something. You see, individually, there isn't anything anybody can do — that is the situation. Collective action means trouble — my party, my system, my technique; your party, your system, your technique — so all these systems finally end up on the battlefield. All their energies are wasted in trying to....
Q: Win over?
UG: ....win over the people to their political stands. But the problems have not in any way been solved by these systems — that's all I'm trying to say.
Q: The country cannot save itself? The heritage cannot be of any help?
UG: The country cannot save itself. The heritage doesn't seem to be able to come to the aid of the people, unfortunately.
Q: (Inaudible)
UG: I have been saying the same thing. The psychologists, for example, have come to the end of their tether — now they are looking to India. They are going to all these holy men, these yogis, to those who teach — you were mentioning the Transcendental Meditation. They are really interested, but they want that to be put to test. They want results, you see, not just talk, not just some spiritual experiences and some spiritual fantasies. It must be applied to solve the problems of the world — that is all they are interested in. So, my argument or my emphasis is that they have to come out with solutions for their problems. The scientists have their problems, the technologists have their problems — they have to come out with the solutions for their problems — that is number one. There is no use those people turning to the holy men here, you know.
Q: They have to find answers in their own way. UG: In their own field — they are the ones who have to come out with their solutions for their problems. Our solutions have no answers for those problems at all — not only those problems, but your day-to-day problems also. Man is interested only in solutions, and not in looking at the problems. You say that these great sages and saints and saviors of mankind have answers for our problems. Then, why are we still asking the same questions?
Why are we still asking the same questions? So, they are not the answers. If they were the answers, the questions wouldn't be there. The fact that we are still asking the questions means that they are not the answers. So, the solutions that have been offered for our problems are not the solutions. Otherwise, why would the problems remain as problems?
So, each individual has now the responsibility; not any particular nation — India or America or Russia. You see, the individual has to find out his answers for the questions. That is why every individual is the savior of mankind — not collectively. If he can find out an answer for his question, or a solution for his problems, maybe there is some kind of a hope for mankind as a whole — because we all are brought together: whatever is happening in America is affecting us; whatever is happening here is affecting the other nations too.
You see, the whole world is now thinking in terms of one world — at least theoretically - — but nobody is ready to give up the sovereignty of his nation. That is really the crux of the problem. The European Economic Community — they have joined together only for economic reasons, and not for any other reason. Every nation is still asserting its sovereignty — but that is the thing that must come to an end first of all, you see.
Even those powerful nations like America and Russia are not able to solve the problems. Like the Iran-Iraq conflict — what are they doing? They are just putting their nuclear ships there — which they can't use. So even they are not able to stop the movement of the world, to control the events of the world.
If even they can't, how do you think India can? We can feel proud because Indira Gandhi has sent an emissary to Iran. What will come out of that? The other nations are using India. Not that India can influence anybody — not at all. Nobody listens to India, because India is not in a position to do anything in the economic field or in the political field or in the military field. This is such a backward nation. You see, we just talk of peace. Why shouldn't India explode the H-bomb? — that is my question. Whether you will be in a position to deliver those weapons or not is a different matter. China is growing stronger and stronger — they will not listen to all this talk. India — nobody cares for India — that is the situation.
This illusion that we have, that all those gurus who are going from India are changing the world, is really a fantasy. Actually, the impact of all this is zero. Zero!
The people who are drawn to these things are not really the ones who can guide the destinies of their own countries — this is a fact.
Q: But how can our rich heritage help to solve the material problems?
UG: It cannot solve them, because of the falseness, because it is false, because it doesn't operate in the lives of the people — that is why it cannot help to solve the economic problems of this country. We have talked for centuries about the oneness of life, the unity of life. How can you justify the existence of these slums? How can you justify the existence of ten crores of Harijans (i.e. one hundred million untouchables) in this country? Please, I don't have any answers; I am just pointing out the absurdity of our claims that our heritage is something extraordinary.
Q: It means we are not translating it into action.
UG: We are not living up to our hopes and the expectations of our great tradition or heritage, whatever we want to call it.
Q: That doesn't mean that our heritage is false or that our values are false.
UG: What consolation is that to us? What good is that? That's like saying "My grandfather was a very rich man, a multimillionaire: when I don't know where my next meal will come from. What is the good of telling myself all the time that my grandfather was a multimillionaire? Likewise, India produced great saints, spiritual giants, and we