Business Owners' Wisdom. Brett Kelly
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BK: What role does money now play?
BB: That’s a great question, Brett.
BK: What is it? What’s it for? How much do you need? How much do you want? People write you up on rich lists and that sort of thing, but what does it actually mean to you?
BB: I think when you go back to the early days, when I started at twenty. I thought twenty grand would be great. Twenty grand, wouldn’t that be wonderful? And then I thought, ‘What if we could have an Australia-wide chain? Wouldn’t that be great?’ Now, we’ve got five and two global chains.
In the early days, of course, money was nice. It’s nice having a nice place to live and a car and holidays, having some of those luxuries. It certainly was a driver for me and I assume a driver for a lot of people.
But you get to a stage where, of course – that’s why it’s such a great question– because I do what I do because I enjoy it, the challenges of it, taking the risks, and so on. And as it turns out, it wasn’t for the money. I’d probably do it anyway.Then it gets to a stage where, of course, I’m very grateful for where I’ve gone, past the money. If I had any sense, I’d listen to some people, I’d retire and I’d be fine.That’s a wonderful feeling.
What I think the biggest thing it does for you, that I really enjoy, is it gives me freedom. And that’s what to me, the wealth that’s been created through this journey is all about. I’ve got the freedom. So, I can actually choose whether I want to work or not. I can choose to be the boss. I can choose what I invest in. That’s a great feeling, too. That’s very important to me.
BK: So, choose who you work with, what you work on, when you work?
BB: All those things. Now, that’s not to say that I don’t have days where I think,
‘Oh crikey, that was bloody hard.’ Or if you have to fire somebody that that’s still a shit thing to do. But in the main, it’s about freedom to be able to determine all those things. That’s the greatest gift I think I’ve got out of that.
Then, in terms of, ‘Why keep going?’, it’s a bit like if something should be done better, then we’re going to do it better. I don’t know if the other guys gave you this answer or not, but that’s what seems to matter to me.
‘I’ll have a view of where we’re going but I won’t have a hard and fast plan that goes beyond five years, because I have never been able to see a plan that’s set that far ahead.’
BK: What’s come out clearly from my interviews has been that people got into something because they loved it. And the more they did it, the better they got at it, the more great feedback they got, they got great experiences, they met better people, blah blah blah. So, they just keep doing it. And then, when you say to them, ‘Well, would you ever stop doing that?’ it’s like, ‘Well, that’s actually who I am. That’s what I like. That’s just who I am more than what I like to do.’ And so they say, ‘I could never stop being myself.’
BB: I think, to some degree, everything you’ve just said there is exactly the way it is. You just keep pushing yourself. You’re doing something new and that newness is actually pretty cool, too.
BK: And you’re hanging around young people who are energetic and want to kick goals.
BB: You see the enthusiasm of those guys. There’s a whole host of things, but there’s so much joy in watching some of the guys that I’ve seen. Peter Bond is a classic example. He started working for us and now he runs Russia. He’s got equity in the Russian territory because I said to him, ‘Get off to Russia and we’ll see whether we can make it in Russia.’ That was five and a half years ago. Now we’ve got two hundred and fifty stores in Russia.
BK: Let me ask you about that. How do you incentivise this group of people– straight cash bonuses, equity, what’s your view?
BB: What I’ve discovered is that they’re very individual, especially at the level that you’re talking about. Everyone’s driven differently. Some people will share the risk with you and therefore would share the reward while others just want the salary and they’ll still do a good job. In Peter’s case, Russia’s not the most desirable place for an Aussie to necessarily want to live and he took his wife, Michelle, and now he’s got two children born in Russia. You’ve got to take that into consideration.
BK: So you just have a conversation with people about what their thing is?
BB: These are very personal considerations. I often say, what do you really want– not what you dream you want. When you ask the question, ‘What do you want to be?’ sometimes, people will tell me things like, ‘I want your job.’ Then, when I press them, I ask, ‘What do you want my job for?’ and they say, ‘Because I want to be rich.’ Then I say, ‘Well, that’s not really the reason.’
BK: you can be rich through lots of things.
BB: Exactly. So, it’s intensely personal to try and find out what the real motivation, the commitment and the real drivers are. In Peter’s case, he was looking to be involved, he wanted to be an owner, he wanted opportunity. He’s a fabulous talent and was willing and able to stand on his own in Russia.
BK: No Russian language?
BB: That’s right. And to me, that deserves everything and more than he has earned. It’s also been the fact that it’s a journey for him as it has been for diva and BBRC. But in a part sense, whatever Peter has, which is terrific, it’s probably not enough because he’s done everything that we would have hoped and more.Then, other people have different drivers. I am a big fan of giving the leadership equity in the business, skin in the game. That’s a hallmark.
‘I’m a big fan of giving the leadership equity in the business, skin in the game. That’s a hallmark.’
BK: Letting them buy in.
BB: Buy in. That’s a hallmark of all the CEOs. So, real skin in the game that they have bought into. And usually it’s compelling, but they’ve still got to commit, and they all do that to varying degrees. That’s partly because we’re a private company so we don’t have share options and things like that. Things aren’t as freely available. But it’s also the way that I like to operate. It also takes quite some time for me. It’s not just about being here for six months and you’ll get that. I’ve really got to know that intimately. It’s easy to be great for twelve months. It’s much harder to–
BK: To sustain that in the long-term. So there’s no retirement. What I was going to ask you about next is, you’ve got your wife, some children?
BB: Sam and Mia, yes, four and two.
BK: Throughout the interviews, one of the big themes has been, what impact does a business, particularly one the size and scale of yours, have on your family life and how do you deal with it?
BB: I’m yet to face those questions, Brett, because they are only young and I’m just starting to experience that. I do find that I have to set time aside. But again, freedom allows me to do that. Take last weekend. We’ve got a possum that’s pooing on our steps so my four-year-old said, ‘Why don’t we build a possum trap?’ I thought it would take one Sunday, but we’re